Taking the Bait

[kefla]

It took only 4 videotaped eps of The Visitor to start "living" the story again last weekend. The TV series gave us the beinnings of a great tale. <BR> <BR>Fungus asked, "Do you think Adam would ever fall in love again?" <BR> <BR>IMO, adding a romantic love interest to MacArthur's present day life would detract or at least fundamentally change the nature of this story. On the other hand, just this week, I've seen what writers can and will do for ratings in TV land. ;-) <BR> <BR>Other opinions?

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Okay, let's run with this angle. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Anything to stop the big talk. ;-) <BR> <BR>I think Adam could easily have "fallen in love again". He's soft, tender, caring. Once he got over the loss of his wife, I think he would have eventually met up with someone who might have joined his cause.

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

what cause? check your e kefla. Hi Sher.

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

what cause? check your e kefla. Hi Sher. <BR> <BR>The cause to change the downhill course of Earths history would be my guess... <BR> <BR>Downside is women are programmed to not be leaders, but followeers, and also still heavely programmed to be child producers and home makers. Very few people, be they men or women, break free of the programs society has set up for us...very few people ask questions as to why things are the way they are, and if it is really a good thing to maintain. <BR> <BR>I seriously doubt Adam would want a typical, disfunctional human...one that is asleep at the wheel, and allowing programs installed into them by society to run their lives like non-stop tapes being played in their heads. Tis why I am still single. hehehe I also doubt he would apreciate someone dumping their power and responcibillitiy at his feet, something women are very prone to...as in the sence that most women want someone to "take care of" them. <BR> <BR>In the end, I think it is clear that when Adam first got married, that he did so not just out of love, but out of program...It was socity's wishes that people get married, have a perfect familly of four, husband works, and wife tends the house and children. He may have loved his wife, but he and she were both running programs...surely after his experience he has realised this, and he may not see marrage, or anything else, as he did before. This must be considered before one can ask what he would do now.

[Electric Goose (Egg)]

Girl. That is so sad! I don't have the view of life that you do. My grandfather wasn't an aviator like Adam. He was a sailor. But he lived in that time and was that same kind of man. I can tell you true. He didn't marry for any program. He completely changed and married - for love. Society's view of their match didn't matter a fig to them. I won't bore you with the whole story and I'm not saying that there aren't people out there running under a program, as you put it, I'm just saying one shouldn't assume everyone is under such influence. <BR> <BR>I'm also in a job where I get to meet many of our world's best, brightest and most powerful female leaders. Certainly, most of them aren't popular with the men! I'll grant you that. Men are "strong" but women are "bitchy." You know what I mean...

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Yeah I know what you mean....that is what I am calling programming. ;) <BR> <BR>And yes, I know there are those out there who aren't just doing what their parents did, cause their parents did it, or cause everyone else is...but a lot of people are. How many people get hooked on something, be it drugs or whatever, even ciggaretts, cause someone else is doing it? Or cause it is in the movies? This is programming. Advertising is programming....school is programming...anything comming into you from any outside source is programming. Very few people put the data they are recieving through a battery of tests to see if said data is sound for the world, or even sound for them. Most people do not have the time to question what is being thrown at them, so they don't. How more descriptive is "a chip off the old block"? <BR> <BR>Also, I live in the south...which is heavilly conservative Christian...where they preach headship, the teaching that men are over women, and can take it so far as to the extreme that women were created soley for men. There is more emphasis for marrage for girls than there is a carrer. Here, everything has its proper place, made by God, and the proper place for women is at home baking cookies. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Just watch TBN if you are in doubt. ;) Now that is some programming....talk about people running tapes. <BR> <BR>Where I go to school, they have more Churches per capita than any other area in Texas, according to one resident(I wouldn't be surprised). They also are 9th in either Texas or the US in teen pregnancy. Paris really does suck. hehehe Again, more programming....somewhere people are getting it in their heads in Paris that it is cool to pop out kids, and live off welfare. <BR> <BR>Let's face it, most people aren't having kids cause the human race is in some sort of decline, number wise. And if you look at most people who are married, they ain't over a lot of their issues, they are still kids. I mean, I have a friend in Houston who is a bit older than myself, and she was dating a guy, and he actually wanted her to lay out his clothes for him...this man is an adult, should she really dress him like mommy used to? She even asked him about this, and he said his last wife used to do so, and that she had better fashion sence than he did. Boy would I have had some fun if it was me laying out the clothes. hehehe I'd get a blody lip for sure. Anyhow, that is childish. What a little baby that can't match ties with shirts with suits..and I know my mom used to do that crap too. Now that is disfunctional. What adult would need another adult to dress themselves? <BR> <BR>Another case in point. Arkansas. Arkansas is a nice place to vacation, cause everything is cheap...food, gas, hotels, you name it. You can also dig for pretty rocks, and watch New Agers go butt skying down muddy mountainsides, and get crystals lodged in some interesting places. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> There are also a lot of really conservative, old fashioned people there. Prime example: A group of us hicks from Texas were staying at a resort of sorts while playing in the country side when we reallized that people in Arkansas were even bigger hicks. You see, we began talking to the lady who was the maid for the place that we were staying, and she told us a little about her upbringing. She let us in on who Arkansas girls are raised to be good wives, by baithing their own brothers. You see, everyone in Arkansas knows that a man cannot bathe himself...no, he needs a lowly woman to do that for him. Be it his mother, his sister, or his wife. Therefore, all girls are prepared for this and many other tasks by babysitting their own brothers. Now that is programming. No one ever stops to think if this is borderline retardism...if this doing things guys are perfectly capable of doing for themselves is a bit unecesary....no, they just spit out the program..which is to get married, take care of your husband, and your kids...hell who needs kids, you get that rolled into one with your husband! What a deal! Oh, to top it all off, they also don't believe in vets there either...you got a cat who has kittens, drown the kittens...who ever heard of spaying a cat? Silly city folks. ;) Yes, tis true old habbits die hard, cause too few people ask the quetions needed to break the cycle. <BR> <BR>Old habbits not dying are why peole are dying in Africa of aids at such an allarming rate. There, men again run the show. And men won't talk about sex. They won't talk about the disease that is spreading through the sex they are having with the multiple wives they are continuosly taking on, cause it is customary to marry a woman widowed from a blood relative who has passed. <BR> <BR>The women are talking though..but no one is listening...Men are still the ones in power. Men are still deciding when their daughters get married, and if they will go to school. And it is men continuing the beliefs that are causing aids to spread, cause taboos about sex are keeping them from being educated. <BR> <BR>Things like this will continue untill people ask why these things were put in place to begin with, and if they serve the people now as they did when they were first put in place. <BR> <BR>These are things anyone taken form one time and left off into another time would really notice, as they would have lost a lot of the data between time lost. They would have to think about what is expeced of them now, compared to what was expected of them before...assuming of course that society had indeed changed. In Adams case, society had changed, and not slowly like for most people, but for him, a litteral leap of sorts. He would have to think through all he knew and believed before he left, and decide what of that he needed to keep, and what he needed to dump. Most of us do not have the luxury of living twice, in a sence...we are not put in a situation where it seems logical, and even more proffitable to look over all we have known. Only with a great change does something like this happen, where you are forced, in a sence, to examine all you have been led to believe you are. Truth is, we are simply physical bodies. It is a truth that we think, that we feel. And that what we percieve is determined largely on our environment, which we may or may not have controll over. But how we process the data, weather we store information as vallid, or cast it out as trash, depends on what we are taught. Our being is not much changing, and our environment may or may not be, but what we belive, and how we percive things is perhaps the greatest vehicle of change we do have. How we program that body, and if anything ever comes along to challenge how we program it...this is life. But most of us try to dodge the bullet of self discovery. We hide in our ancestrial past, never knowing what it is to be free of all that was before us, reliving out the memories and dreams of those gone before us, like the living dead. We hide in our governments, in our religions, in our famillies...allowing them to decide for us what is safe and what is not. Only when all the secure things of our favor are yanked from beneath us, are we given a chance to be free. To think for ourselves if all these things taught and lived before us are worth our living and teachig to others. <BR> <BR>I was, at first, cursed with great change, for it forced me to go where I could find no clear path. But then I realized that it had forced me to find out about things kept hidden from most, due to a lack of personal experience and growth. This is true with any great change, and so I feel that the changes meet by Adam would have caused him to question all that was before him, and all that was to be experienced after that point of questioning. To live apart form others experiences, and to have your own, compleete with your own views and feelings, not what others have told you to view and feel. <BR> <BR>My own ultimate test at loosig all I had known, and seeing something on its own standing came with Yinepu, who, for most of my life, never really seemed to fit all the various molds placed before me. I had to let Him go, and allow Him to come to me as He truly was, not as I hoped He would be, or as others said He should be. This was a great experience for me, cause as I came to a better acceptance of Him, I was also better able to accept others at face value...simply seeing without judging. I am much calmer now, and less confrontive than I was even a few moths ago... <BR> <BR>I think everyone needs to let a good life shattering experience visit them just once..breaks down all those old beliefs, and allows you to rebuild yet again, hopefully with better materials than you used before. ;) I think that sometimes seeing life like that is best...that we are formless, like waters. And we are making in real state our form, from the materials around us, like a house. So we are the formless spirit, and the house is what we are making for others to perceive us, as we feel they can otherwise not see us. And so sometimes in our lack of experience, we do not put up enough support beams, and the walls become weak. Or perhaps we didn't use the right paint, and we got termites. Sometimes the repairs we are left contemplating to make are minor, like cauking around the widows, or a few new shingles. But sometimes we are left facing the reallity that we need a new roof. But we may or may not make the repairs necessary to the house we have made, cause perhaps it is too costly financially, or perhaps we do not wish to own up to the fact we had erred in our design. Sometimes, the house is so bad that in the end we must demollish it, and start from the foundation up all over again....but at least we had the previous knowledge of building, and we kinda know how to go at it again, though with some new changes. But in the end, we are not the house, it is just our vehicle. So is our reallity. But most of us have confused our reallity with us, when it is not. We are no more the set of beliefs in our heads than we are the house we have built. We are formless in the end, like the waters we came from, and in the end, our building only confines us and makes us into something we are not.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

wow....profound. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>If that don't pull Pat out of the closet, nuttin will. ;-)

[Kefla (Kefla)]

Very thought-provoking. Especially your second post, Jen. Some of these ideas are so deep and so personal - it would be scary to take them up on a BBS. And applying your ideas to Adam MacArthur - fascinating.

[Agent Pat (Agentpat)]

Yeah, gotta respond Sher, but I'm not sure it's what you would have expected *I* would say... <BR> <BR>I don't see how falling in love with somebody is all much that based on "programming." Yeah, I can see culture and bigotry and a few other very human maladies getting in the way, but true love is not going to be boxed up all that neatly. (Where's Sharifa when you need her?) <BR> <BR>WAY back up this thread somewhere, the question was, "Do you think Adam could ever fall in love again?" I would say, of course he can. Obviously the right set of circumstances would have to fall into place to allow for that, but I could easily see it happening. <BR> <BR>Potential examples could be: Adam meets up with another abductee on a similar mission and they begin to work together; a women that perhaps shares a similar career history or aspiration as Adam, such as being a pilot, albeit 50 years apart; someone who reminds him of his wife, in looks or actions, that he finds a physical attraction to and would allow for a bond to flower... Oh, there's tons of examples. <BR> <BR>Within the fiction of this story, Adam is still very human, with thoughts and desires just like any other man. He may suppress a lot of his more primal drives, but sooner or later, he's going to meet somebody who his heart is going to connect with, even if his head is telling him he has to finish his bloody mission first. <BR> <BR>Point is, people aren't always using their *heads* when they fall for another person. While cultural and other biases do exist, love transcends all that - most of the time anyway. <BR> <BR>I dunno. Maybe I'm just being blinded by other characters these days... ahem... but I can easily see this happening with Adam. I just call 'em as I see 'em. JMHO.

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Yes, in my first post I was saying that most of the human population would probably not fit his idea of a person he may like to be with, as he has changed so much from society, and even from who he used to be... in the second post I was trying to explain what I ment of programming and the such. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> I wasn't trying to say he would or would not do anything...just that his views are certainly differing from most of ours, and that that would put him in a different perspective with regards to relationships.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

hehehe Mission succeeded. ;-) <BR> <BR>Pat...good post! All I wanted was ta hear yer input on it. I knew this subject should hold your interest enough to want to comment on it. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>Jen, you're right. His views and values may change. But at some point, he's also still very human. He wanted to go <I>home</I>, presumably to be a human being again. He missed that. He wanted to preserve it. And perhaps, that aspect of human character that allowed us to care and love each other. That is what was worth saving, to him. No?

[Chris Ceraolo (Chris)]

What if the time with the Elders taught him the true meaning of love, and his desire to be with Constance was just part of it. Maybe he was truly becoming a human being, and willing to sacrifice himself in order to LOVE humanity. <BR> <BR>Very Christlike, ya think? <BR> <BR>Chris <BR>The FOX plant <BR> <BR>PS-Yes Pat, I did say that. It is Friday the 13th ya know.

[Kefla (Kefla)]

Maureen wrote: We hide in our ancestrial past, never knowing what it is to be free of all that was before us, reliving out the memories and dreams of those gone before us, like the living dead. We hide in our governments, in our religions, in our famillies...allowing them to decide for us what is safe and what is not. <BR> <BR>**smiling and remembering what it's like to feel this way** But,to some extent, humans are required to live out these "programs" in order to survive. Other species have instincts that allow them to survive, but humans must rely on the knowledge and the customary roles of those who went before them. <BR> <BR>Very true that we can stagnate and be led astray by our programming - as in your example of proliferating AIDS because of cultural traditions. In the same way, newly hatched sea turtles move toward street lights instead of the sea and are killed by cars. <BR> <BR>But, in general, I share your feelings. Much of human behavior reminds me of the frenetic activity of insects or pack rats. "I'm busy" is the justification - yeah, busy with things that would be empty of meaning if the world ended tomorrow. <BR> <BR>You also wrote: I was, at first, cursed with great change, for it forced me to go where I could find no clear path. But then I realized that it had forced me to find out about things kept hidden from most, due to a lack of personal experience and growth. <BR> <BR>Have you been reading R.D. Laing's Knots? Or Thomas Szaz? Won't go into it here, but both spoke about unparalleled personal growth in those who successfully weathered great personal crises. <BR> <BR>And now to get on topic: Adam's abduction experience could have been a catalyst that enabled him to think outside the box. That's why I was fascinated with your ideas, Maureen. Based on clues in the show, however, I saw no indication that this was true. I'd agree with Sheri and Chris that Adam's humanity and love only deepened. Adam seemed more devoted to Constance and family post abduction. He seemed very traditional in his view of family, in fact. (I'm thinking of his talks with Joe in Going Home and with Laura in Miracles). I also agree with Pat, that given the right circumstances, Adam could fall in love with an ordinary, "unimproved" human given the right conditions. My only problem with that scenario is that it would change the nature of the story.

[Agent Pat (Agentpat)]

Kefla wrote: <BR>> My only problem with that scenario is that <BR>> it would change the nature of the story. <BR> <BR>Yeah, it would make it more interesting. *giggle* <BR> <BR>Oh, there goes my bias again. [grin] N'mind. ;o)

[Kefla (Kefla)]

LOL. The Visitor was so complex, at it was. We had Adam MacArthur and his mission, the fugitive angle with FBI and NSA chasing him and fighting with each other at the same time. Then there was Adam's hunt for his son plus the human interest (Touched by an Angel) angle each week. Throw in Elders and abductees meddling in MacArthur's affairs. Now . . . . people want to add a romantic component! <BR> <BR>We need to make this more interesting? OK, I agree that the MacArthur character needed to develop in some way over the series. But a girlfriend would likely slow him down, don't you think? ;-)

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Someone lock up the viagara, eh? ;-P <BR> <BR>heehee <BR> <BR>Kefla...."girlfriend" sounds kinda..hmm...childish, for Adam. I would think it would be more of someone who understands his place and ends up working alongside him. The love would come from sharing that same goal and drive. He seems to be a very focussed guy. Kinda like his Agent. ;-)

[Kefla (Kefla)]

LOL Sheri. I should have said Adam's would-be "love interest", I suppose.

[Kefla (Kefla)]

Adam's agent - ;-) needed to find him more than 13 episodes so some of our questions could be answered.

[Agent Pat (Agentpat)]

I've been spoiled, big time. What can I say? [grin] <BR> <BR>While I can't see Adam dragging around a GF from episode to episode, it would have been nice to have ONE episode that introduced the *possibility* that he was not as unattainable as he appeared.

[Kefla (Kefla)]

Uh huh - some sign that Eve was a possibility one day.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Eve! I love that, Kefla. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Perhaps a fellow abductee who comes out to join him?