A question for Dean concerning 911

[JLR (Dragon)]

I'm am well sure that the 9/11 tragety has deeply affected everyone in the film business, as well as the rest of the US and the world. Coming from Oklahoma, I know about both human and natural monstrousities, and the courage it takes to live on, even if you are affraid or unsure. Today I hear of further attacks that could take place, and I feel worried about my Electro-friends in California, as well as the rest of the USA. Those foolish, ignorant terrorist, of whom pervert what is Islam, think that by destroying statues made of copper or other things that they are destroying America...what those fools don't realize is that America isn't cheap fast food restuarants, things, and pleasure, but America is the God given right of Freedom for ALL nations around the world, the burning pashion to live on, even through death and destruction...ah hem... <BR>Anyway even so, it is only natural and time, that they will strike against the film industry. What actions are you guys taking, if they should strike LA? <BR> <BR>Please take care

[A Good night Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

This reminds me of an article I read yesterday. Miami they said, had a threat of someone doing something to the local water system. Only thing is, their reservoir is a natural in ground lake, surrounded by millions of tons of rock, and the only area it exits to the pump is heavily protected. So what does the mayor say? <BR> <BR>"well, it's not like an above ground resorvoir, like New York's, where someone can just come along and toss something in..." <BR> <BR>Like, shut up! Is he that dense? Stop giving these people ideas! (it's also like the televisions shows that point out EXACTLY what is wrong or flawed in the security for airlines, and our nuclear power plants. Gee, thanks. The terrorists are probably using these 'expose's as training films...

[Chris Ceraolo (Chris)]

It's not Miami he was talking about Fungus, It was Orlando. <BR> <BR>We have security measures here to prevent the ground water being tampered with. <BR> <BR>sigh. I miss the time when we didn't worry about this stuff. <BR> <BR>Chris <BR>The FOX Plant

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Job creation. Saskatoon employs people round the clock to watch OUR water system. Not like we'd be a likely target or nuttin, but it pays to be safe. Far better money spent than on some dude shooing pigeons away from Parliament Hill. ;) <BR> <BR>Btw, with this WIND we're havin, wouldn't take much to have an airborne disease spread. But then again, it'd die by the time it hit our -4 degree weather today, AND be blown right through ya with the 50+mph winds. (as she battens down the hatches here, and seals up the cracks with all the SAND blowing around here! Or, what used to be farmer's fields anyway. Dirthy 30's all over again, it is, here.)

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Btw, this terrorism crap also cancelled our annual world-renowned Air Show in Moose Jaw CFB. Insurance costs were too high. *grumble grumble grumble* I say we fly the Snowbirds right over Iraq and have our air show there. hehehehe

[Starr Magick (Starr)]

AMEN to that one Sistah... <BR> <BR> this weather is bad and shows no signs of letting up.. <BR> <BR> as for the air show... <BR>that is the biggest load of BS I heard... <BR>GRANTED we get the big "toys" out for it... <BR>and they make tempting targets... <BR>but this IS middle of no place Canada we is talking about..

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

I have to agree with Fungus here..I think we are a little too up front with how we suck. But I personally think that it is not the real terrorists who would use this, they already know we suck, and hate us for it. ;) I think it is the little idiot kids and such here in the US we need to be more concerned with using that info(like the mail box bomber), not real terrorists. Real terrorists know all they need to know, more than most of us could ever hope to. <BR> <BR>On an interesting side note. For the past couple of years there has been some sort of spraying over the major cities...this has been seen by tons of people and I even used to have some websites where it was photographed. After the spraying would be seen(big bellied planes leaving massive cloud plumes over the city) we would have a "flu outbreak" in the city. Anyhow, it ticked a lot of people off, and some thought the government was guinny pigging us. I personally thought then, and still think now, that the government was doing something to help people to survive a real attack if one ever occured. So perhaps the governments know more than we do, and have already done what was needed to protect at least the large populated areas from attack? On a side note, there is evidence that the government has tested on civillian populations in the past... Someone came on the PBS station in Houston a while back with a foot high stack of documents on tests that took place even at public schools. So a lot of people didn't like those sprayer planes. I also recal a segment on unsolved mysteries in which a town was coated in something like tappiocca, it killed a lot of pets and made people sick. People saw jet planes flying over just before the stuff hit the town. I think there are jerks doing jerky things in the government, but in the end, the government is composed of average joe humans, and I do believe that sometimes they are doing things to help us, but just can't tell us cause we'd freak. ;)

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Pretty scary stuff them average joe jumans are capable of doing though, ain't it? "Terrorists" are average joe people too. <BR> <BR>On a side note....this is something Fungus would ask, so I'll ask it for him hehehe What about the toilet flushings on an airplane? Do they get let out into the air? Or saved for cleanout upon return to an airport?

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Why would I ask that? It's just like a mobile trailer home. There is a septic tank built into the plane, that is emptied when the plane touches down and goes in for refueling. Although on some planes, there have been incidents were 'icey particles' crashed to earth, that they believe was frozen waste from airplanes :] Imagine an icey turd freefalling 5 miles and landing in your living room ;]

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

people have supposedly been killed from blocks of frozen putty stuff from airplaines...could be an urban legend though.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

What a way to go. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Talk about the expression "shit happens" ;-)

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

Speaking of s___ happens, this is really weird.<A HREF="http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml" TARGET="_top">http://www.glennbeck.com/news/05172002.shtml</A> <BR>Hidden pictures of the WTC and Pentagon attacks! <BR>Some people just have tooo much time on their hands. My Mom worked a stint in the Pentagon many moons ago, and were the situation and time line a little different, her (and eventually my) very existence could have been drastically altered by those f. bastards. Don't think I'm going to forget anytime soon. They can eat "icey particles" and meet Allah for all I care, they've crossed the line.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Egads, someone has FAR too much time on their hands. Sheesh. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Or they're making a great living at origami :]

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Pretty sick origami, if you ask me. ;-) No wonder the USA is in the sad state it's in. ;-)

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

If we were in such a 'sad state', people wouldn't be trying to blow us up :]

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Re-read that sentence. ;-)

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

OK, we'll lighten up, here's some more wisdom: Men are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still <BR>can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs. <BR> <BR>"I read recipes the same way I read science fiction. I get to the end and <BR>think, 'Well, that's not going to happen." <BR> <BR>"Health nuts are going to feel stupid someday, lying in hospitals dying of <BR>nothing." <BR> <BR>"The other night I ate at a real nice family restaurant. Every table had an <BR>argument going." <BR> <BR>Have you noticed since everyone has a camcorder these days no one talks <BR>about seeing UFOs like they use to. <BR> <BR>"According to a recent survey, men say the first thing they notice about a <BR>woman are their eyes, and women say the first thing they notice about men is <BR>they're a bunch of liars. <BR> <BR>" - Whenever I feel blue, I start breathing again. - <BR> <BR>"All of us could take a lesson from the weather. It pays no attention to <BR>criticism." <BR> <BR>Why does a slight tax increase costs you two hundred dollars and a <BR>substantial tax cut saves you thirty cents? <BR> <BR>In the 60's people took acid to make the world weird. Now the world is weird <BR>and people take Prozac to make it normal. <BR> <BR>"Politics is supposed to be the second oldest profession. I have come to <BR>realize that it bears a very close resemblance to the first." <BR> <BR>"There is a theory which states that if ever anybody discovers exactly what <BR>the Universe is for and why it is here, it will instantly disappear and be <BR>replaced by something even more bizarre and inexplicable. There is another <BR>theory which states that this has already happened." <BR> <BR>How is it one careless match can start a forest fire, but it takes a whole <BR>box to start a campfire? <BR> <BR>"You read about all these terrorists--most of them came here legally, but <BR>they hung around on these expired visas, some for as long as 10-15 years. <BR>Now, compare that to Blockbuster; you are two days late with a video and <BR>those people are all over you. Let's put Blockbuster in charge of <BR>immigration.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

LOL I like the last one especially. heeeheeheehee

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

I did re-read that statement Sheri, and it reads fine :] <BR> <BR>If the US was in the sad state you seem to think it is in, then terrorists wouldn't bother trying to blow us up. Apparently we're in a much better state than you seem to think, which is why they are trying to kill us.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Uhh....yeah....okay. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Fungus..I think Sheri was poking fun at the goof balls with the origami... <BR> <BR>I think of Bill Mahar(spelling?)'s Politically Incorrect here.. Alot of people are confusing criticism of the US with unpatriotism and such...but to say the least, with any truly free county one should be free to criticise all they wish. And to be very frank...this country has both national and international pollicies that could use some changing. Not to mention how we are percieved by people from differing countries. Americans on average are seen as whiny snot nosed goof balls, who don't have a clue. It took the actions of one Austrailian to shake that to the core, when he did what Americans are famous for, and claimed to have a bomb in his bag as a joke. haha Now we share the fame with Austrailia for stupid things people say at airports. ;) <BR> <BR>I lived overseas for several years as a child, and have travelled abroad(with my diplomatic passport of course). So if you choose to question my perspective, I would like to first ask if you have traveled abroad, as that is where most people get their bad impressions of Americans. Americans gripe and complain about lines, and how things suck, and how dirty things are, and where is the McDonnalds? They travel all the way to Hong Kong and want a Big Mac. Some of this I witnessed, some of this I participated in. hehehe Not the MacDonnalds though. <BR> <BR>I am not saying that the terrorists were right, but I am saying that they aren't the only ones who dislike us, and people need to ask why this is so. Our culture and sex riddled music and fashion is ransacking other cultures..Whity World is poping up everywhere... I hate going to other countries and seeing a little piece of cheap gaggy America there, but it is more and more difficult to find the true country. You got to break away from the tours. <BR> <BR>There are just a lot of percievable negatives to being a superpower.... <BR> <BR>And I won't even get into our relations with Israel, or the oil countries....

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Jen's got it right on the spot. If so many countries are angry with the USA, there's gotta be a reason for it, and alas, sometimes criticism is the only way to improve things. Fungus' remark seemed more representative of the "don't hate us just because we're perfect" attitude in the USA that has gotten it into so much hot water around the world. Egotistical? No one likes an ego maniac. The USA isn't perfect, and if once in awhile they admitted it, perhaps others would be more understanding and sympathetic towards them. But when they have a "our way or the highway" mentality, ain't nobody wanna help them out. Canada included. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Yes, but you need to understand something too: It's these other cultures that are adopting american ways, not americans forcing their ways on other cultures. We may not be perfect, but a heck of a lot of people want what we have. And some countries and peoples hate us for that, because they want their youth to keep their culture preserved, yet their youth is emulating our culture. People like Bin Laden think that by killing all the Americans, there will be nothing to emulate. He's so wrong though...

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

I agree that the other countries willingly take on our culture Fungus... The best example was Egypt. Wanna feel like a celebrity without being one? Just visit Egypt. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> They love Americans....told us when we were there that they loved Clinton. They wanted my autograph(though in hind sight I have been pulled aside and photographed in several countries, think it is the hair?) They were blairing popular American music form boom boxes in front of the pyramids. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> But, I didn't come to Egypt to hear American music, so I was happy to get a tape of a popular singer that I heard while there. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> Ammer Diab..."Habibi". I am just saying that it sucks that other cultures are being replaced. In Hong Kong there was a thirst; a lust for anything new...anything shiny. When we were there, they were trucking down the antique silver by the truckload form China to melt it down. And when we left, they were leveling beautiful landmarks, some a hundred years old, to give way to new high rises. Even Chinese temples were not spared. That is the Hong Kong Chinese, but it also reeks of Western thought in so many respects. <BR> <BR>On a side note...I wish humanity would protect fragile human culture and indiginous poeple and their ways like we do so many endangered species. It is the same old same old. Our way is better, we know better..and all other ways must give way to our perfect view of the world. We are losing a lot due to the influx of more stronger, proffit driven cultures on other less viable cultures. If it doesn't turn a proffit, it doesn't seem to be worth much these days. In the rain forrests we are loosing indiginous cultures to missionaries and miners...any info on cures to diseases they had are going with them. It is suttle, and no one seems to care, because it is not the people that dissapear, but their world views, their ways. Perhaps this is why we are hated..we are like a virus of a culture. But, for the Muslim extreemists to hate Westerners is ironic, as they too force their ways on others.

[Mike]

There are a lot of multicultural countries that seem to make it work. Canada, England and Australia for three. No religous wars or rasism there. <BR> <BR>I think it's more of the mistakes that America made from the beginning. Chris Columbus goes waaay of course while looking for India and hit's a sand bar. Never having actually been to India, Sees the guys on the beach yelling hi, as potential English bus conductors. <BR> <BR>They settle. Need help. Capture Native Americans as slaves untill they run out so they get Othello's mates and make slaves of them. <BR> <BR>A weird religious cult gets kicked out of England. The country gives them a ship - the Mayflower - and tells them to piss off. I guess they start looking for India, too, but instead become America's aristocracy. Knee pads requisitioned for oval office interns, etc. <BR> <BR>I think what this weird place is going through is the paranoic shock after 911. McCarthyist reds under the beds stupidity of shock. <BR> <BR>America is just going through an identity crisis through apparent defeat through lack of control. <BR> <BR>America has become a hollywood protagonist. <BR> <BR>Don't worry about it

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Actually it's not. That's the beauty part. Americans are pulling together moreso now than ever, plus they are starting to reevaluate their position. Not lack of control, but rather being the victims of a bitter hatred that is propagated by the minority, yet the innocent majority is made to suffer. <BR> <BR>The only thing Hollywood about America, is Hollywood :]

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

The thing the USA needs to learn, is that other countries suffer this sort of loss EVERY DAY. Oh boohoo, the USA got struck. Other people live with this fear on a daily basis. Yet, what do we do about it, ya know? Oh, we can pass it off and say "that's their problem". <BR> <BR>But therein lies America's problem. In God they trust, it says, but one has to wonder sometimes.

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Other people live with this fear because it's the type of environment they live in. They live in places where this conflict occurs. But for someone to actually BRING such a conflict onto US territory (which is more or less isolated, so it's not like we're encroaching, trying to take other peoples lands) is an act of war, not an uprising like what's going on in israel and the like. It shouldn't happen anywhere, so don't make it seem like it happening to the US is just another 'boohoo get over it' deal.

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Well, regardless of the argument....because of our relations with Israel and our other world pollicies, we are being attacked, and it will only continue I suppose. <BR> <BR>But in the end, the oil companies will grow and prosper...Americans will continue to do their patriotic part and support the war by purchasing SUV's, and we will all scratch our heads and pick our noses and look for new oil in Alaska. <BR> <BR>And meanwhile the rest of the world, and some smartallics like myself will see all this and wonder if 9/11 wasn't just on the horizon. We do so love our crappy cars, and our addiction to fossil fuels...and we have a president who refused to sign the Kyoto Climate Treaty. But we are still so innoocent...yeah right. Blowing up buildings ain't the best way to get your point across, and I don't even think they had a good point to get across, but we got some stupid issues that are tying us into that region. <BR> <BR>Fugus, we are not isolated...Our national policies have a ripple effect just like everyone elses. We have turned nations on nations, created monsters, and then wondered all the while how they soon turned on us. In the end, it is all about getting ahead, and who will be on top. But that ain't the truth...there is an ultimate balance, some of the oldest cultures knew this...everything you dish out one day comes your way...throuw a rock in a pond, and watch the ripples travel out, even back to you. We threw a lot of rocks...now some of it is comming back to us. Oops... <BR> <BR>Just remember, we created a lot of the regiems we are fighting now...we funded them and gave them weapons. <BR> <BR>And why do Muslim countries hate us in general? Cause we put into power puppet pricks who will give us what we want, and who cares what they do to their own people. <BR> <BR>An interesting side note....this is the crap that spins my mind, may not get far, but it gets me thinking. You think on it too. <BR> <BR>About two to three weeks ago a news story hit our channels about an oil rig that had been taken over by men from Nigeria demanding work. Now on the surface this seemed mundane, but then I heard Nigeria is like 8 as far as oil production is concerned. I believe the people there are quite poor though. see this. <A HREF="http://www.moles.org/ProjectUnderground/motherlode/chevron/nigeria.html" TARGET="_top">http://www.moles.org/ProjectUnderground/motherlode/chevron/nigeria.html</A> <BR> <BR>I think this is why so much of the world hates the US. We get cheap oil from starving people, and the rest of the world can pay ten times what we pay...we don't care. We don't care who dies for it, who starves for it, we don't care who starts what war for our diamonds, our gold, our oil...just so long as we get it. And we will keep whatever countries we need these resources from in their degraded state so we can keep getting it cheap. Hell, we even get sex cheap from poor countries I suppose. Israel gets its sex slaves imported from Russia. Human rights went down the toilet for the rest of the world a long time ago. So I see Sheri's point when she doesn't care that we are getting a little of the pain. We've been dishing out missery for a long time now...perhaps we will come to realize the rest of the world is tired of our success at the cost of their lives and well being. <BR> <BR>Lip service comes cheap Fungus..last I heard people were still buying diamonds in spite of the little black children who are getting butchared for them, and we are still lining up for SUV's so that we can pump em full of oil from Iraq. But damn I feel like a patriot when I fuel up my truck...can't wait to turn into a green natzi and get one of them hybrids.

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

I admire all these insights and agree with some of whats been said, but as far as 9/11 goes, and the ones that instigated these atrocities, here's a little subtle reminder......"A Book!, What do you mean a book! You know you can't read! Get the bullwhip, taliban terrorists, and put 'er ta use! Have your way with her first, and if she dies, there's no loss! <BR> That kind of oppression, created by anyone, anywhere in the world is NOT a good thing. And then to come here and take thousands of innocent lives, people just doing their jobs, to further emphasize their (non)value of human life, is about as low as they come. <BR> Why can't we all just get along and live in harmony? I just want to be the Lizard when they make that new Spiderman movie. That's really as close to any realistic fighting as I'd care to be a part of anyway....unless of course... those taliban tried to take your books (or much worse)from you,or Pat, or Goosie, or Trina, or the new car driving Plant, or Tess, or Rosie, or Sheriff Sam, or absolutely Ute, or Mr. Devlin's sister(which I never understood about the Bro-in-law wedding...isn't a bro-in-law already married?)and Sheri(and she's from Canada) ;) then; I'd go to bat for you.

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

We are more or less isolated Jen, land wise, which is what I was saying. Palestine and Israel are fighting for the same land. We are not taking anyone's land. No one is fighting us because we usurped their clod of dirt. They are attacking us because of our beliefs, and the freedom TO believe. When was the last time they gave any of their people that choice?

[Mike]

Lets look at some of the old propheses. "Three arab states will wage a suprise attack on Israel". What's the biggest Jewish city outside Israel? New York. That prediction is over 2000 years old. <BR> <BR>The Navajo believed that twisters were nature's way of disposing of negative energy. There's been a lot lately... in unusual, non twister areas. The Navajo reckon that before the whites came there were no twisters. <BR> <BR>911, twisters, and bloodshed was also predicted by the Manhattan Indians if the land they were caretakers of was abused and if they were ripped off. <BR> <BR>Karma? I think so. <BR> <BR>Racism is so ingrained in the American Psyche that even blacks are now racist against blacks over the color of their skin. They see the darker skinned as inferior. The NAACP was a positive force under King. The current little power mad shrimp has made it more racist and dangerous than the KKK ever were. He condoned the LA riots... publically! <BR> <BR>The cycle of war goes: <BR>Supply catches up with demand, <BR>then comes the lowering of basic moral values, <BR>then comes crime, <BR>then violence, <BR>then war. <BR> <BR>The same goes for communities. <BR> <BR>This cycle seens to be about 50-60 years. Is America overdue?? Looks like they're picking the fight. <BR> <BR>Does God have a sense of humor? Well, he put Iran and Iraq side-by-side, didn't s/he?

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

LOL @ Mike. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>I agree with Jen's point. Canada's right above you, Fungus, but no one picks wars with us. Why is that? We share the same freedoms and beliefs that you guys do. So why don't they wanna blow us to bits? <BR> <BR>From a Canadian's POV, America is arrogant. (The gov't anyway, the peeps that I know aren't) Nobody likes arrogance, as it stirs up jealousy, hate, and eventually, acting on that hate. Thus, in a way, America got what was overdue for it, MAINLY because Bush is so arrogant in his international dealings that he stirred things to the boiling point. Patriotism or Arrogant Pride? There's a difference. The America I see shares nothing at all with God's creed that they claim to live under. Nothing. Being hit like it was, should make it want to look inward, understand, and extend compassion to others who go through the same things, and have more understanding. Instead, it has turned America into a selfish "everyone else be damned" attitude and that's not healthy. "Our way or the highway" indeed. What will the US do when the rest of the world doesn't want to listen to their dictating anymore? <BR> <BR>What I was saying above, is, sure, America got hit. Ooh ahh, how many times in how many years?? Consider yourselves lucky, because heaven knows, America has asked for more than it's fair share in some of the ways it handles international relations. Yet, other countries get it every day. People die everyday for foolish reasons. Sure, it's "not our fault", but I doubt the people who live there asked for it either. To blame it on their own stupidity is unChristian, imho. We're supposed to have compassion and understanding our fellow human beings, no matter where they are, what religion they are, or what colour they are. "Love thine enemies!" <BR> <BR>It's sad that anyone should have to die for any reason as stupid as arrogance and racism. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I feel the same compassion for the American victims as I do any other country. They don't deserve any special "boohoos" though, " just because" they were Americans. <BR> <BR>It's time to quit thinking in terms of what country one is, and more of, WE'RE ALL HUMAN and we all need to help each other make our lives better, whatever it is defined as by their own personal creeds. It doesn't HAVE to be just America's way of life. (Which we all know has it's faults too, just like any other country. Gluttony, deceit, to name a few.)

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

An addendum: Ya'll may wonder where I'm coming from, but when was the last time you looked at the USA from the outside in? I don't know what the local media feeds you as far as what a "hero" your president is, but at some point you may want to look at the "big picture" from a non-American view and see what he is really doing. Undermining America's image in the eyes of other nations. Then, maybe you'll understand the real reason why nations hate America. It ain't your "freedoms". It's the arrogance and outright lies and breaking of treaties/agreements/laws. If other countries did to you what he's doing to them, you guys would wanna hang 'em by their manlihood! ;-)

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Let's see, looking at america from the outside... <BR> <BR>When natural disasters strike a country, who's the first to send aid? When people are starving and dying, who's the first to send aid? Hmmm... <BR> <BR>Look at Bosnia. Which UN Sanctioned troops where there, and getting killed? Why? There's no oil or resources there. They were trying to prevent the same holocaustic genocide that happened in WW2. I would add Kuwait, but too many people are cynical as to the reasons for that. <BR> <BR>The US aids just about every foreign country when something happens to them. The US was aiding Afghanistan for how long? And then they turn around and decide to harbor not only terrorists who hate the US, but whom they know are not just talk and bluster. Same for Iraq. The US aids them, then they turn around and try to take over Kuwait so they can drive oil prices through the roof. Yes, I agree with Jen about the US putting many of the regimes in power that we are now dealing with. <BR> <BR>Why do other countries follow the aid lead that the US lays down? Because the US is setting the example! Other people may hate the US for it's arrogance, but it's that "arrogance" that is helping so many countries around the world. <BR> <BR>We're far from perfect, but the truth of the matter is, if the US adopted a boundaries policy (no more interaction with other countries), how much more suffering would their be? And even doing that, STILL wouldn't keep people like Bin Laden from wanting to kill us. It's just hatred, pure and simple. It's not justified in ANY way, period. <BR> <BR>Btw, Sheri, you have a HELL OF A LOT OF NERVE suggesting that foreign policies in any way justified the attacks. And yes, you DID imply that. "America has asked for more than it's fair share in some of the ways it handles international relations". How is that justifiable? It's not. You don't even know what our foreign policies are. Heck, most americans don't even know! You think the Israel/Palestine thing set people off? The record shows that in the last 30 years, more than 75% of UN decisions (backed by the US) have been in FAVOR of Palestine! <BR> <BR>And that's not to lessen the impact that as you say, Sheri "other countries get it every day". It shouldn't happen PERIOD. Just because it unfortunately does, NEVER justifies why it happened again, no matter whom the target. Yes, it may happen daily elsewhere, it's sick and wrong. But whether it happens once or 10 times in the US still doesn't justify it.

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Btw, I do appologize to Sheri, and everyone for being so abrupt. I contemplated not hitting 'post message', but the truth is, this had to be said. I'm sorry though, that I had to direct it towards specific people. Sadly, Sheri is FAR from alone in her thinking, and it's the SAME thinking that causes such terrorist attacks to occur. Only difference is, Sheri is smart enough and humane enough to live and let live (however stupidly or arrogantly we may live), whereas other mentalities see fit to live and kill off. <BR> <BR>Arrogance or not, only an insane monster would indiscriminately kill off thousands of people, for whatever reason. <BR> <BR>Josh is going to log back on and go "oh crap, what did I start?" :] <BR> <BR>No worries Josh. It has nothing to do with you (or anyone else here really). It's more a balance issue. Outside people see US as arrogant because of a few who are in the world spotlight, and choose to take it out on those who's faces and names they will never know, nor even care to take the time to learn.

[Chris Ceraolo (Chris)]

Sheri Said- <BR>"Ya'll may wonder where I'm coming from, but when was the last time you looked at the USA from the outside in? I don't know what the local media feeds you as far as what a "hero" your president is, but at some point you may want to look at the "big picture" from a non-American view and see what he is really doing. Undermining America's image in the eyes of other nations. Then, maybe you'll understand the real reason why nations hate America. It ain't your "freedoms". It's the arrogance and outright lies and breaking of treaties/agreements/laws. If other countries did to you what he's doing to them, you guys would wanna hang 'em by their manlihood! ;-)" <BR> <BR>Okay. I have the story of stories about this, because I was on a foreign airliner on September 11th, coming back to the US from Japan. <BR> <BR>You ever see your country in an entirely diffferent light? First off, I will admit the bias in the beginning-I loathe the current President. I did not vote for the man, I have not thought he is doing a good job, and yes, I still consider myself patriotic because, last time I checked, it's still okay to disagree with the man.When you're not allowed to disagree, you're living in a dictatorship. <BR> <BR>Landing in Detroit Michigan, I saw a national tragedy unfold before me, one I know I will never see again, but, at the same time, the attitudes of people were amazing. My airline put me up in a h

[Chris Ceraolo (Chris)]

Got cut off there.... <BR> <BR>Here's the rest of me post... <BR> <BR> <BR>Landing in Detroit Michigan, I saw a national tragedy unfold before me, one I know I will never see again, but, at the same time, the attitudes of people were amazing. My airline put me up in a hotel, fed me, and paid for the numerous trips that took me from the hotel to the airport and back when the airlines kept cancelling the flights that would get me home. <BR> <BR>My Japanese airline took very good care of me. Trying to switch airlines, I was cussed at, told that I could just sit and wait, if I had told them earlier that if I had told them that I was on the Japanese grounded flight that they would have gotten me on a "Good ole American" flight that would have gotten me home (That was my personal favorite-I will NEVER fly American Airlines EVER again) <BR> <BR>The Japanese, on the other hand, apologized for their "disorganized American Friends", offered busses immediately to get folk to their destinations, etc. They told the few Americans on the flight that if we needed counseling that they would be happy to supply it, and how sorry they were that something so tragic happened to our country. <BR> <BR>My mother was in Chicago, heading home from the same trip, and was told "You'll need to find lodging, and we don't have a number, you'll have to call, and no, we aren't paying for it." <BR> <BR>Welcome home. My mother had severe laringitis, and no one would help her. NO ONE. I felt awful, living the kings life where I was and my mom was suffering. Mom was on American, btw. <BR> <BR>The only person to help mom, on a fun little side note, was Kyle Chandler. You ever watch Early Edition? <BR> <BR>Nice guy. I don't think he'll fly American again either. <BR> <BR>Sheri, it made me want to go back to Japan. <BR> <BR>I am so happy now that Congress is asking the question, "Did people know in advance?" While I can see people going, "Did she just open a can of worms?" I can state this. If Bush did know (and I think he did) could we have saved lives? <BR> <BR>On a sad little side note, I found out some time after the flight that someone I went to High School with was on Flight 11. I feel horrible for her family. <BR> <BR>Chris <BR>The FOX plant

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Chris, what I was saying is more about why does the whole world have to stand still just because someone dared to attack the USA? It happens all over, but why does the USA think it deserves special attention just because they are who they are? I just thought it rather callous and unfair from some American rhetoric that I'd seen on the news. It was as if, who cares about the rest of the world when it's in pain. We got hurt, and now we're gonna blast ya back. Ya know? What does that solve? More innocent people getting killed over it. Yet, when America is the one doing the striking, it's "acceptable"??? Sadly yes, when it comes to those with the weapons, it's the leaders of a country that seem to represent the country's reputation as a whole. Therein rest my point. Guess who's there? <BR> <BR>As for foreign policy, I can't speak for Israel or other countries, but I've seen Bush backtrack and screw us over on so many agreements with Canada in the short time he's been in office. Softwood lumber, anyone? Free Trade, my arse. It's that sort of dealings with other countries that is getting the USA in more hot water than it can handle, and it was only a matter of time before *someone* struck out against it. Sadly, we saw the way they did. :-(

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Oops, looked up and realized it was Fungie I was replying to, not Chris. All these long names! heehee <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

[Chris Ceraolo (Chris)]

Sheri- <BR> <BR>At the same time, why did the country have to stand still? Why did we have to put fright practices immediately (Ever been practically strip searched?) <BR> <BR>We have freedoms here that we lost because of September 11th. But, then again, did we have these freedoms in the first place?

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Sheri, if the world decided to 'freeze', it wasn't because the USA said so. Nobody really expected such a strike against the US like that. Much of the world was in *shock*. Plus, yes, it does happen, and countries have ways of dealing with it. But when it suddenly happens on your own turf, can you seriously expect anyone to treat it the same way as they do when it happens thousands of miles away? Of course not! It's the closeness to home issue then. <BR> <BR>Btw, America isn't Bin Laden's only target, just it's first. Canada, Britain, France, in fact EVERY non-muslim country is on his list. Be greatful that many of those countries are taking an initiative to prevent this from happening again, to ANYBODY, not just the US. <BR> <BR>Btw, Chris, Bush didn't have knowledge. I mean, a few months before 9/11, there was an issue of "Fantastic Four" that feature a practically verbatim storyline! That issue was written about a year before. In fact, the terrorists in that comic attacked on September 11th, and it was a group calling themselves the Jihad, and they blew up the World Trade Center! Eery coincidence, no? The fact is, most of the scenarios that terrorists play out have been thought out by counter-strategists. The only problem is, they cannot predict WHEN the action is going to be taken, and to use 'precognitive' counter measures means the stuff you saw and experienced at the airport right after 9/11, on a regular basis. This is the reason for this counter-terrorist initiative, so that rather than trying to thwart future such actions, they can take it away right from the source. The US may not be perfect, it may not be the best, but to say it doesn't have a large benefit to the world at large, to ignore all it DOES do to help the global community, is just blind hatred.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

I guess just us sappy Canadians feel sorry for people all over the world. ;-) We may be "wimpy" military wise, but there's a reason for it. We're not the war-mongering type. If someone strikes us, we try to find out WHY. And negotiate. As well, we're usually the ones left to clean up the American's military mess. (And of course, to take the blame too for "letting them into the country" PAH!) <BR> <BR>Yeah, I can even feel sorry for folk like Bin Laden, who seem to think they have to eradicate anyone who doesn't think like they do. WHY? I wish I could get into his head, to see what he sees, and try to make him understand it doesn't have to be the way he makes it to be. :-\ I can sorta see his point, although his "solution" for it is in error, I can see why muslims may feel threatened. After all, the Powers of the world aren't muslim. Maybe they feel left out? Put in the corner? Their beliefs not being held as important in the world? Who knows. I just wish every human could forgive and forget, and not solve problems by returning an eye for an eye. It only makes the problem worse. Get to the ROOT of the problem, rather than using "might" to make "right". Perhaps that is why I am disappointed in America's response. Instead of learning, and having compassion, they're still the big ol macho "We biggum, don't mess wif us!" attitude. Rather than showing the world what true freedoms can do for us, we're not much different than the rest of 'em. As Gabriel Martin put it....This is supposed to be the New World, but it isn't, it's the same as the old one. <BR> <BR>With Freedom comes responsibility. Just because you CAN speak foul mouthedly to someone if you wanted to, doesn't mean you should. With Freedom needs to be Respect, Wisdom, Kindness, and Understanding. Without them, Freedom is almost a license to do whatever you want...literally. Throwing a little money to charity now and then to try and make oneself "look good" speaks much less then the way one's leader handles himself in dealings with other nations. That's something Bush has got to learn more of. Diplomacy. <BR> <BR>Out of curiousity, how much does he actually listen to the American people? Or does he just do what he thinks is best, and sweet talk the nation into it with his testosterone-coated speeches? Does America truly have democracy anymore?

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Sheri, by that definition, America NEVER had a democracy. I'm not saying what you said is wrong, on the contrary, it's rather true. <BR> <BR>But basically, we vote in our leaders (not that we have a great choice. I mean, anyone who *wants* to be a politician is already halfway to schmeggegi's ville. It's sad that it's become "the lesser of two evils" rather than a viable choice. However, we still do vote them in, and they make the decisions. Unfortunately, the ones who did vote for them just grumble, whilst the ones who didn't protest aloud. No satisfaction anymore. <BR> <BR>Like I said in another post, our tax money is still going to light matches under cows arses. No voters okayed that. It's basically "vote me or me in, and we'll do what we like with your tax dollars, and your countries resources." Our say in things ends when we cast our ballots.

[A Good night- Pop tarts, Gin fizz & (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

adding to that: <BR> <BR>These public campaigns, whether they be smear campaigns or what, basically it's about what the politician did in the past. He did this, or he didn't do that. <BR> <BR>The big question is, what is he <I>going</I> to do? And we never find out until it's too late.

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

What Fungus is saying makes a lot of sense. As far as 9-11 goes, it wouldn't have mattered who was sitting at the head of the table, the response would have been the same in my opinion. Closing the borders and eliminating free trade would not help the world as a whole. Sure, money can be spent in numerous better ways. I mean here in USA there are far too many older people who have to make a choice between what bill to pay that month or what medicine to buy. Perhaps we need to address further into taking care of our own. I liked Dear Abbey's response to Rumsfeld's letter to her last week where she said "Regardless of one's political leanings, after Sept. 11, we are united in a war against terrorism". And I'm thankful other nations are wisely following suit. Speaking of Abbey, although I believe it was Ann Landers who sent a letter in reply to my Grandad several years ago in reply to his letter to her (something about bird dogs, I can't remember the gist entirely) but he kept it framed on his wall for years.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

The best way to fight a war against terrorism is to show love and understanding to everyone we meet. Show people how life SHOULD be done, and how grand it can be. A light to the world, we all should be. All people, no nation, undivided. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)"> <BR> <BR>The world's theme song should be John Lennon's "Imagine".

[Mike]

Someone once said, "on the day whern we can fully trust each other there will be peace on earth." (could've been from an during the late, late, late, early show) But then I listen to Ani diFranco songs and see that this girl not long out of diapers avocating violence in her songs --seeing the solution to all our problems is to gun everyone down who is a problem to us personally. You gotta think what kind of millennium we're entering <BR> <BR>Unfortunately this is the think of about 22% of the population, and thanks to Political Correctnes, democracy doesn't exist any more because we're thinking the minority fringe thinkers are more important to the world than the 78% of us that are actully sane. <BR> <BR>So Guys, what do we want this world to become, and what do we do about it?

[OVERLORD (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

I'm sailing awayyyyyyyyyyyy! <BR> <BR>What? It only works in one thread? <BR> <BR>You know, I never heard of Ani DiFranco before, but I was looking up a song last night and her name came up, and then you post it. Freaky... <BR> <BR>Btw, I'm one of the 22% insane. In fact, I think I rank in the top 50 worldwide, at least.

[JLR (Dragon)]

Ok Sheri, let me let you in on something about Islam, since Grandpa was a missionary to Pakistan for 12 1/2 years. <BR> <BR>The Islamic Faith can be both a peaceful and extremely violent belief system, depending on how you interpet the context. Unlike "True" Christianity of which speaks of a Savior, who died for all. Islam has no such savior, and thus the followers have to earn their way to heaven. So what these monstrousities like bin Laden do is say to poor and desperate people who know of nothing to live for is say, "Do you wanna go to heaven, then do this and this and this, and you'll be a martyre for Ala, and go to heaven." <BR>So while Islam is really peaceful. (I have several Muslim friends) People like bin Laden want POWER. They do not care about Islam, nor their people (If so why were the citizens of Afganistan impoverished) Why would they train 13 and 14 year old children to strap bombs to themselves and blow themselves up. bin Laden is nothing but a murderer. He is a 21st century Adolf Hittler. <BR>The entire conflict revolves around one subject. Isreal... <BR>As a Christian, I too feel sorry for bin Laden. I don't actually hate him, but I hate what he is doing. You see people like him are the ones hurting the Islamic movement. Do you think that Isreal would be at war with Palistine right now, if it weren't for those terrorists? Of course not. Palistine would probably be a state right now and excepted across the world, but those terrorists are keeping that dream from happening. <BR> <BR>God is a God of love and Mercy, but if you read the Bible from cover to cover, you learn that God is also a God of judgement, the most dreadful judgement. Look at Sodom and Gomora, God wiped them out in a single night. God is not pleased with the acts of bin Laden, and someday, maybe not in my life time, but God will wipe his kind clean of the globe. (to clarify, his kind as terrorists his kind, not the Islamic people) <BR>His day is coming.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

He's a typical human with greedy intentions. Islam is the victim. There are just as many Christian zealots though who take advantage of unsuspecting people too, and hide under the protection of the state. It's so sad that people can take something so wonderful (one's beliefs/faith) and twist it and use it against them in such evil ways. Not only is it bad for the people involved, but it also makes the religion look back in the eyes of the world, when in fact, what they're seeing is NOT the religion at all. Just the results of some selfish greedy bastard who's twisted it to suit their needs. :-\ <BR> <BR>As for Israel/Palestine...their dispute goes back many many generations. I don't think the lack of Terrorism would solve their problems. They suffer from the "I'm more special than you, so get out of my Holy Land" thing. Someday, they may both realize it's just a hunk of dirt, and limiting their God to that little blown-away hunk of land is wrong. Ever so wrong.

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Yeah I think Sheri is right..the whole Palestine Israel thing is beyond terrorism..it is a religious issue...not truly, but that is the excuse. There are Jews, the Zionists I believe, who think that all the fertile cressent land even up to the Nile is theirs by divine right...So with that, God's backing, these people will never give Palistine a State, and the Palistinians know this, which is why I think they blow people up. <BR> <BR>And it is just all this sort of retarded, illogical thinking which is why I do not think America needs to get involved. But unfortunately the Jewish people here will sell their muck to the Christians who will willingly drink it up. <BR> <BR>I still on occasion catch some spot on TBN Christian network in which Christians are trying to get other Christians to sponsor a Jewish familly from somewhere to come into Israel and live there...presumably on recently ceased Palastinian lands. No one seems to see the other side as human, or at lest not the Christians and Jews sponsoring this crap. But then again the same theme can be seen throughout the old testament of the Bible in particular, a theme of conquest and murder in the name of God. The normal excuse is that these people being erradicated and having their land/property taken were ungodly. But if you get down to it, aren't we all corrupt with sin, and doesn't God see all sin in the same light? Therfore isn't all this "kill cause God said so" just a lame excuse? <BR> <BR>Now again..so long as people are getting hurt and suffering, and we are backing up one side pretty much blindly, which is the Jewish side in many cases, then we will be hated. I wish that state decisions would not be made on a religious basis, but it occurs on all levels in this country, which is why we have stem cell legislation, abortion laws, and some horrible legal descrimination against gays. I figgure one day that it will all backfire on us...laws based on injustice rather than justice, laws that foster suffering and seperation rather than freedom and peace for all. It seems a problem everywhere when you see God being regulated to a narrow few who must join a "club" to recieve the worthines of others.

[OVERLORD (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

That's incorrect Jen. As I stated earlier, in the last 30+ years, a vast majority of decisions have been ruled *in favor* of the Palestinians, against Israel. If anything, Palestine is being more supported. <BR> <BR>Btw, I didn't know where to post this, but found it interesting: <BR> <BR>W A S H I N G T O N, May 27 — Americans prepared for their Memorial Day weekend amid a flurry of uncorroborated terror threats, some of which, sources told ABCNEWS, were inspired by the 1998 remake of the Japanese monster movie "Godzilla." <BR> <BR>Most of the warnings released in recent months have come from interrogations of al Qaeda and Taliban prisoners in custody in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba. <BR> <BR>The main source has been a man named Abu Zubaydah, whom the United States believes was al Qaeda's chief of operations. <BR> <BR>Questions are being raised, however, about whether Zubaydah is playing games with his interrogators, deliberately sending his captors off on time-consuming and expensive wild goose chases. <BR> <BR>For instance, during interrogations recently, Zubaydah suggested that a bridge and a statue shown in the remake of "Godzilla" might be targets for terrorism, sources said. <BR> <BR>When officials watched the movie, they concluded the alleged Osama bin Laden lieutenant was referring to the Brooklyn Bridge and the Statue of Liberty. Within days, the information prompted officials to place both under heightened security. <BR> <BR>In the past two months, Zubaydah has also been the primary source of warnings about radiological bombs — or dirty bombs — and possible al Qaeda bombings at shopping malls, banks in the Northeast and apartment complexes. <BR> <BR>All the threats required resources to publicize and guard against. <BR> <BR>"The problem with these threat warnings which are all emanating from Abu Zubaydah is that it stretches law enforcement resources very thinly and response teams very thinly," said ABCNEWS consultant Vince Cannistaro. "We treat each one of these threats as if they had equal value." <BR> <BR>Sources said that what is happening is Zubaydah, described as extremely sophisticated and a master of subterfuge, is playing mind games with his government interrogators. <BR> <BR>And even when investigators have doubts about Zubaydah's information, they say they have no choice but take it seriously. <BR> <BR>That could the terror suspect's intent. He may be following al Qaeda's training manual, which includes instructions for giving disinformation, sources said. <BR> <BR>"He is someone who believes in the organization, and its objectives," said Cannistraro. "He's not going to just turn over all of the inner secrets of al Qaeda." <BR> <BR> <BR>—ABCNEWS' Pierre Thomas contributed to this report

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Fungus. As best as I can understand, when the state of Israel was formed, the UN told Israel that Palestine had to have a state as well. Well, some sixty years have passed and still no Palestinian state. So I don't know where you ge the idea of support for Palestine, when there is no Palestine. <BR> <BR>Also, the current ruler of Israel, Areal Sharone, is wanted for war crimes in Geniva? for his role in a massacare of some 3500 Palestinians in a refugee camp, yet no one talks to him about being a terrorist. <BR> <BR>Israel keeps taking more and more land, and refuses to allow the existance of a Palestinian state..so they are, in my opinion, the ones to blame for the bulk of what is going on. In the end, both parties are lying to one another, and breaking promises they never intended to keep. And they are doing very good at responding to each other based on what they fear the other side will do rather than what it is actually doing.

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

Not to be arrogant, but if the taliban tries to take Kefla's books, I'd be more than happy to join JC and Ted Nugent in intervening. <BR> <BR>Great post, Dragon!

[JLR (Dragon)]

All in a good days work for your Friendly Nieghborhood Dragonslayer.

[Mike]

Fungus, if you know you're nuts, you're not. Welcome to the 78% of us. <BR> <BR>Like the Muslems and Christians, the Islamic religion (36 years old this year), have their radical offshoots. <BR> <BR>With the Muslems, they have the Seikhs (these are the 'Land of Milk and Honey' assasin guys of Aladdin fame. They were the political arm. If they didn't like a polititian, or one thwarted their plans, they'd recruit a looney by feeding them a halucen fungus. He'd be drugged, taken to a place and told it was heaven. He'd be told if he wanted to come back, he'd have to kill a selected polititian, saying he was an anti-Allah. Of course he'd be killed by the guards, and later find that he'd been conned. <BR> <BR>This is standard propaganda most religions use. Think of the abortion clinic killings. Same thing. In 1923, the Catholic church tried giving people Coke in an effort to do the same thing. (but the bubbles kept tickling their nose). <BR> <BR>The Christian religion is an off-shoot of the Muslem (Palestinian) religion that is an off-shoot of Judism. Remember, the head of the household in Judism is the wife; her children follow her religion. With the Muslems, the guy is the head of the family. If you read the Muslem texts, you'll find Jesus being mentioned and quoted. <BR> <BR>As to Israel, their land covered Jordan, flanked by the Jordan River. During the last three thousand years, they lost a few acres. <BR> <BR>Palistine is made up of at least 8 nationalities, Arabs, Egyptians, Syrians, etc. Remember, again, Mary was an Israeli and Joe was a Palestinian. Their marriage by the Essenes (joe was a member) wasn't recognised by either side. <BR> <BR>In a movie, the hero and villian fight over their differing values. Religions have the same problem. The last Jew officially killed by the Catholic Church was in 1932 (according to vatican records. During Hitler's war they PR'd their way through it by "saving" the Jews. Saved and turned into Christians. Those resisting conversion were handed over to be gassed, etc. <BR> <BR>Will, I don't think Ted could be much help. He couldn't even help intervene in his own dissolving life. Great muso, though.

[Mike]

Is this Ironic or what? I got an email from Saed, a script supervisor/2nd unit director in Bethlehem (the one in the Middle East, not U.S.). To make matters confusing, he's a Lebonese Jew, from Russia, living in Palestine. <BR> <BR>Spoke to him about the discussion and such, thinks the world's leaders have gone power mad. <BR> <BR>He confused a palestinian who threw a rock at him by continuing it in its direction. This happened for 5 stones. The Palestinian gave up and walked off. I guess he was disappointed Saed didn't throw them back. <BR> <BR>Now why can't our Leaders do that, Oh, Majestic Sheri of Killfordia??

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

LOL Mikey, I agree. Or better yet, throw the leaders into a wrestling ring, and let them have at 'er. Tell the soldiers to all go home. Without soldiers, there is now war. <IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/clipart/happy.gif" ALT=":)">

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

whups, NO war, not "now" war

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Besides, here in KillFordia, the only thing we kill is Fords. Cars that is. 4wheel things. In demolition derbies. ;) <BR> <BR><IMG SRC="http://www.electric-ent.com/bbs/messages/14/731.jpg" ALT="Ford">

[Will Finch (Shetan)]

I happen to like my Ford, thank you very much! It always gets the job done. I liked my Honda too, '78 it was probably the most economical vehicle I've had, but as of yesterday, its continuing its worthiness as a donation to the Kidney foundation. Did you see Ethan the soccer playing Survivor hosting the demolition derby in the Garden State on TV? <BR>You're right Mike, most of history and the present is full of sad events. Consider ourselves fortunate we have the freedoms we do.

[Mike]

Sheri, The Ford looks like it's a victim of one of Dean's eight-legged friends. <BR> <BR> - your humble serf