Advice on sculpture

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

I currently have at a foundry a sculpture in the process of being bronzed.... <BR> <BR>I am wanting some feedback from the artists of our group because I am getting mixed feedback from family members, namely my father. <BR> <BR>Background on sculpture.....it is of Yinepu, about five inches high and five inches long, and is a reproduction of the statue found in Tutankamen's toomb. I have studied an anatomy book to make sure I was getting the muscles right, as I only have a few pics to go by of the orriginal piece. The stand is not detailed like the orriginal, cause I don't have good enough pics to tell what it is I am doing. The body has all muscle detailing, as well as the detailing of the scarf, and feathering in the ears, and the eyes and eye brows..the eyes and eye brows are less than three millimeters in leanght, and I did all detailing with an optivisor of magnification of ten times..I am saying this so you guys can understand the deatiling I did... The foundry guys were fearful that detailing would be lost, but are trying it anyhow. The sculpture, when finnished, will be a bronze with two tone petina finnish, and will cost $350 dollars(when sold on the market w/proffit included in price). Now, my dad has said, and I ain't arguing, that there are sculptures for sale for as little as $20 dollars, but all these are that plaster stuff, and I have yet to find any bronzes of Yinepu. My dad thinks I should have never bothered with getting it bronzed, as he feels there are cheaper ones out there, even if they are of less quallity. Irregardless, I will be making one at lest. But I am also working on two horse sculptures as well. Those too are being done with the help of anatomy books, though no optivisor is being used yet. I am wondering if I should bother....

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Well, firstly, do you feel you have a market for the bronzes? Tell your dad bronzes don't go cheap. A friend of mine sells hers in the $1000+ range. (<A HREF="http://www.thesculptedhorse.com" TARGET="_top">http://www.thesculptedhorse.com</A>) Actually, she'd be a good person to talk about about sculpture. Also, <A HREF="http://www.sculptor.org" TARGET="_top">http://www.sculptor.org</A> <BR> <BR>Secondly, there is a less expensive method for casting that gives you a product that is sellable for the lower range, but NOT $20. That $20 crap is like cheap plastic. Your dad, no offense, knows absolutely nothing about sculpture, imho. ;) You can use Fine Art resin, and you can even make the moulds yourself if you wanted to. CHeck out this product: <A HREF="http://www.synair.com" TARGET="_top">http://www.synair.com</A> That sculptor above, Lynda, she uses this stuff for her resins. <BR> <BR>I've got some clay here that I'll be doing some sculpture with, and plan on using the Syn Air product to make my own moulds and resin casts. Hope to be able to sell the castings for $100 or so. (The Fine Art Resin casts solid, btw, not hollow) <BR> <BR>As well, I imagine you've been taught this already, but be careful for undercuts. Plan how your piece will be cut apart for the mould making and casting part. Do you use an armature? What all do you do to make your sculptures? <BR> <BR>Btw, to see a sneak peak at my first attempt at sculpting - in progress - see here: <BR> <BR>http://blackhorsestudio.homelinux.com/sculpture <BR> <BR>(This URL runs off my home machine here, so might not always be accessible if I have my computer off. Just a note. hehehe)

[This moment is so much bigger than (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Jen, there is a market for EVERYTHING. You just have to know where to find it. I'd be willing to bet that you can easily sell that sculpture for 350, probably more even, and it will probably go to someone who likes "Egyptian Stuff" and doesn't know squat about Yinepu :]

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

Undercuts? Don't know what you are speaking of. ;) I was referred to this foundry by the University of Houston's art department, and they are the best foundry here in Houston, other than the Glassell School of arts, which is private. The foundry is handling all mold making details. They did say that my sculpture, due to it's small size and detail, would have been better off at a bronze foundry set up for mass production using centrifigual force casting machines, but you have to have big bucks up front for those places. I just used sculpty for the Yinepu sculpture, though the stand was innituially supported with cardboard. For the horses, I am using wire support...still using sculpty...I like the sculpty stuff, for it doesn't dry out...even after being out for a good three years. hehehe Then I just pop it in the oven. I will be getting the sculpture back in wax in about two weeks, and I will have to take out some fill area I put in for the initial process at the foundry, and do any touch ups for lost detail and make adjustments, then take the finnished wax back, and then they will cast the bronzes from mold taken off that as needed..I get to keep the mold.... <BR> <BR>I see your pics...your horse looks a little bit like one I am working on..one horse is a bust, the other is a full horse prancing with it's head thrown back. Both will have their mouths open, the bust will be a bit larger, and so I am getting that one done first as far as the head is concened, so I can get all annoyances ironed out before I go to the smaller, full body one. The full body one is roughed out in its body, upper legs and neck, and the bust one is roughed out shoulders and neck and head, head being detached so I can get under the jaw and such for detailing, as well as teeth and tounge. I innitially wanted to do a detailed anatomy study by doing the skelleton first, and then layering on the muscle, but Yinepu talked me out of it. <BR> <BR>I too think there should be a market Fungus, but I also need support from familly to help get this stuff started.... I have to pay the initial mold making fee, and first bronze cost before I can take any pics of the item for marketing, then I can bronze as needed....so far, the Yinepu one was quite affordable, but the others may be a different story. It would have been nice to have had some help from my father...I will still need to have someone take pics of the sculpture once finnished, and then get postcards made to send out to various galleries and stores with info on the sculpture.

[Sheri Gordon (Sheri)]

Undercuts...something about the way you sculpt it that would make it difficult to fill a mold. Think of the negative space of your sculpture. That is, if you were to place it in a box, and fill the box with water, the water is the negative space. Think of that water as a rubber mold now....would the material being poured into it run into the sharp deep backwards facing crevasses, or would it go around them? <BR> <BR>IOW, I think overhanging things at less than a 60 degree angle or such, would be hard to cast. Which is likely why your foundry is having trouble, if there are any parts like that in your original sculpture. <BR> <BR>I'm using Prima Plastalina (non-sulpher bases) for my sculpture. The armature is 20 guage aluminum wire and aluminum foil to build up the bulk. I've put on the outter layer of clay and very roughly put in the general shape of the horse head. Once I get me some carving tools, I'll go in and work the details.

[Electric Goose (Egg)]

Uh, <BR>cemetarysurplus.com? <BR> <BR>1 inch miniatures? <BR><A HREF="http://www.wildorchidminiatures.com/bronze.htm" TARGET="_top">http://www.wildorchidminiatures.com/bronze.htm</A> <BR> <BR>Here is an "Anpu" <BR><A HREF="http://www.ancient-empires.com/anubis.html" TARGET="_top">http://www.ancient-empires.com/anubis.html</A> <BR> <BR>There seems to be more under Anpu than either Yinepu or Anubis. I tried searching "high quality bronze" (both names) and came up with a bunch of occult shops with dinky statues in bronze. Seems to be mainly UK shops though. They seem to have intertwined him with HP Lovecraft lore and call him Agga. Very interesting...

[Electric Goose (Egg)]

After searching the net, I find, there are a million and one cheap knock-off's. It's just my opinion - but - Your sculpture sounds like you really put your all into it. I'd rather have ONE $350 statue than 10 or 15 $20 ones. <BR> <BR>I don't know if people where you're at are the same as people here in the Bay Area. But quality and detail sells better than inexpensive. People would decorate their homes with $300 mohair "Bunnies By The Bay." Then the bunnies got purchased by Hallmark and now they're mass produced for much less. The quality is not as nice. The detail is entirely lacking. You can find them piled up at Hallmark stores discounted to the extreme and Hallmark.

[Jennifer Gray (Maurine)]

HP lovecraft lore? What is that? <BR> <BR>I looked at the links all ya'll gave, the one from Sheri in particular of the Bronze group was very helpful. <BR> <BR>I looked at the pics Electric Goose gave too...those are simillar to ones I have found. I am unsure as to if bronze finnish is the same as bronze, but I know that bronze finnnish over white metal is painted pewter, which is of poor quallity. <BR> <BR>I really do hope that my sculpture will have been worth the effort, if not, then at least I will have something I will want to place in my shrine. hehehe

[Agent Pat (Agentpat)]

Mo, I've made bronze sculptures before. I used the "lost wax process" instead of clay. Wax is easy to work with and more durable when packing with plaster. I suggest using it as a medium if you do decide to go through with your sculpture. <BR> <BR>Don't worry about "undercuts." The foundry will properly "gate" it for you so there will be no dead spots when they pour the molten bronze. I used thick bladed exacto knives to cut through the wax. Folks making huge sculptures use portable torches and whatnot, but I found that holding a blade over a lit candle was much more economical and safe when working on small projects. <BR> <BR>My biggest sculpture is about 7x9x9 inches and weights about 6 pounds. It's a bizarre creature: lion's body and mane, 3 toed dinosaur-like feet and claws, snake for a tail, eagle's wings, dog-like head with large fangs and a forked tongue. Oh yeah, I was "out there" when I was a kid. LOL <BR> <BR>As to your detail questions, remember that I have a large statue of Yinepu. If you'd like me to take some pictures or measurements for you, I can do that no problem. You can then just extrapolate the figures down to the size you need. My Yinepu is about 2 1/2 feet long by 2 feet high. It is an exact replica of the one found in Tut's tomb. <BR> <BR>Finally, putting a value on such a sculpture can be difficult. I never sold any of my pieces because they were more valuable to me to keep than try to sell. But, a selling point you can make that has the effect of raising the piece's intrinsic value to potential customers is that what they are buying is a ONE of a kind. Even if you've copied the original, the piece the customer is buying is completely unique. Since the wax melts away and the plaster cast is destroyed once the bronze cools, the mold and the original sculpture are lost forever. <BR> <BR>I agree with Sheri on bronze art - it's WICKED expensive! If you sell your piece for 200 dollars, *I'LL* buy it! LOL I think you can get at least a Grand for a well-made, detailed sculpture along the size of my griffin-like sculpture that I described above. The gating preparation and bronze casting alone is gonna cost you at least a C Note, I would think. And then there's the time you put into it, not to mention the uniqueness of the piece. Don't short-change yourself babe. You're an artist. Art is expensive. Folks who buy this kind of art know and expect this. JMHO. :o)

[This moment is so much bigger than (F_U_N_G_U_S)]

Pat, your sculpture sounds like a Chimaera. <BR> <BR>Jen, ever hear of Cthulu, the Necronicon, the Elder Gods, etc? These are all part of the mythos developed in the early 20th centurty by a writer named H.P. Lovecraft.

[Agent Pat (Agentpat)]

YES! It's VERY close to a Chimaera - the body, legs and tail especially. But mine has wide, solid wings, and a very dog-like head. The head looks like a combination of that of a dog, lion, and eagle. It's pretty weird. I'll take a picture of it tomorrow in the daylight if you're curious Fungus. :o)